Tags
Challenges, Christianity, Christianity and Mental Health, Just For Fun, Mental Health, Mental Illness
Day Three – “The miracle Button” – If I offered you a miracle button which when pressed would instantly take away your mental health issues – would you press it or not? And why?
I think the first time I heard this question posed in respect of someone’s mental health it was by Stephen Fry in his documentary “The Secret Life of a Manic Depressive”. (Which is, I believe, available on YouTube and worth a watch if you are interested.)
Interestingly nearly all those he asked responded, “no way”. But I would rather not simply respond without thinking it through some.
Many of the reasons given for not wanting to push that little red miracle button all boiled down to the same thing – the mania or the good parts of the illness far outweigh the bad parts of the illness for the sufferer and to lose them would not be acceptable.
But see I have a couple of difficulties here…
Firstly, is it not true that to some extent or other the ‘goodness’ of the ‘good parts’ are actually being measured in comparison with the badness or the bad parts? And thus is not how good they actually are – or our perception of that – being heightened or exaggerated?
Secondly, unless you are talking about the mania – which I know can cause great productivity and feelings or experiences of elation, how do you know that the good parts – which people often ascribe to being part of the illness – creativity, lateral thinking etc – really are a part of the illness. Which therefore then begs the question how do we know that we would therefore actually lose them as a result of pressing that button?
Thirdly, but along the same lines, how do you know that having the illness removed will remove the good parts as well anyway? What if having had the illness unlocked those creative, beneficial parts, and now that they are or have been unlocked they will remain regardless of whether or not the illness remains?
Of course it is all hypothetical – a Schrödinger’s cat situation isn’t it? As we will never truly know until we push the actual button. So all I am saying is that I simply don’t want to blindly accept an illogical or questionable argument 🙂
Lastly in this regard, is there not a certain amount of selfishness being demonstrated within that argument? What about others – our loved ones and those closest to us for example?
Yes we benefit directly from the mania, the elation, and yes certainly others may benefit to a lesser degree and more indirectly from the good parts but compared to the burden they experience as a result of the bad parts, is it still worth it?
Another position adopted by folk when faced with this question is the position, “No I wouldn’t push the button because if God allowed this into my life who am I to simply push a button and remove it?”
Well I can so very easily understand that position and on face value it seems noble and perfectly valid but again I have a couple of difficulties here…
Firstly, and I am not being disrespectful just honest here, I have real problems with the whole “God allowed it” argument when it comes alongside the question of “free will”.
How do we know that the illness is not as a result of one of our own “free will actions” rather than something God allowed to enter into our life? Even in the case of a genetic illness how do we know it wasn’t resultant from something our predecessors did as a result of their “free will”?
See I have this friend who I love dearly but who repeatedly fails to take responsibility or own up to his actions. And the excuse he nearly always throws up is “But hey I am the way God made me.” It is just such a bogus cop out!
Firstly, we know both in Psychological and scriptural terms that we are a) imperfect and b) have been and are – to varying degrees – influenced by other people and by our circumstances and environments.
So unless you are and have always been either a) totally immune to these influences or b) raised and/or lived in a family and circumstances and environments which were always exactly how God wanted them, the NO you are NOT how God made you!
And if we are not how God made us, how then can we simply accept that our illness is without doubt God’s will? Could it not be a result of ours or someone else’s sin or bad decisions?
That is not to say that I deny the possibility of it being something God allows. I do of course accept this possibility, I simply (as a result of the whole free will consideration) don’t accept it as being a definite.
Which brings us to the stance – “If God wanted to remove my illness from my life, he would do so.”
I am reminded of a story I heard in a bible teaching one day…
A pastor was caught in a flood had to climb on his roof for safety. As the waters rose ever towards him he prayed for help.
A row boat came along and tried to rescue him, but thinking of others first and sure God would save him he sent them away telling them to go help others first.
Still the waters grew ever upwards and a speed boat came along and they called to the pastor to come down and get into the boat. “No I am ok! God will save me.” He called back as the waters rose to his waist. “Go help others first.”
Just as the waters rose to the pastor’s neck a helicopter hovered overhead. “I’m ok.” He shouted up, “I am sure my God will save me. You go help others.”
Eventually the waters rose and rose and the pastor died and went to heaven.
“Um Lord, ” The Pastor spoke respectfully on meeting God. “What happened? I was so sure you would save me.”
“Well my child,” God answered, “I did send you a rowing boat, a speed boat and a helicopter, what more did you want?”
LOL, its a humorous little story isn’t it, but the point is – what if the little red miracle button was sent by God? What then?
But my point is this. I have heard the arguments and considered the positions that many others have adopted in respect of this question and each one has its own validity or merit. And certainly I don’t mean to appear disrespectful of any of those positions.
But I myself just truly struggle with this question. And, as I mentioned above, I also have to consider the effect that my mental illness has on others on my friends and family.
What about the strife and the concern that I put them through as a result of this illness?
By my not choosing to press this button am I not actually running the risk of being selfish?
It is just such a difficult question isn’t it? “What about if the button was to remove your terminal cancer?” What then? Would you push it then? And if so what makes it OK to push it then but not now?
See, I love my Lord and I love my God and in truth they have brought me through so much so far. And I truly want to do His will so the very first thing I would do about it is to pray I think, and at the same time get my church to pray and I hope that having done so I would respond accordingly.
So I guess my answer to the question, “If I was offered a miracle button which when pressed would instantly take away my mental health issues – would I press it or not? And why?” Has to be I just don’t know and for all of the reasons above.
Again, please understand I am not being disrespectful of anyone else’s answer to this question or saying their stance is wrong. I am simply seeking to answer according to my own heart.
I agree that we have to think of our effect on others and I know from experience my being Bipolar and Asperger’s has hurt others.
The other thing is something I may not be welcome to say in a Christian forum but, Kevin, you sort of got near saying it although not saying it as I would. I am not sure but I think we are paying for sins of a previous lifetime. I realize that clashes with Christian belief but, Kevin, you came close to saying something similar about the sins of others being brought upon us.
Please ignore this comment if you find it offensive.
And it is the same God whose name I invoke when I say God bless you, Kevin, for bringing so much light to bear on this question.
Hope you don’t kick me out of the forum.
Ellen
Dear Ellen,
Great to hear from you again as always 🙂
Please know that I do not find your comment offensive at all and wh9lst I understand your reservation in respect of it being mentioned in a Christian Forum. I personally feel if it can’t be discussed here where can it be discussed and I for one welcome intelligent and challenging debate on such things.
My position on it was to come from the perspective of how some of my actions no doubt affect my children and possibly their children and so on. It is without a single reservation, having traced my family tree, that I state categorically that my relationship with my biological father (which was tolerable at best) was directly influenced by my father’s relationship with his father and quite possibly his with his father. Further back than that, sadly, I have no information.
So my stance on this is that without doubt my mental health was impacted by my relationship with my father and that that in itself was impacted by his relationships and so the cycle continues. This of course is relevant to non-genetic mental health BUT can’t the same be said for genetic mental health?
In respect of the whole “the sins of the forefathers being visited upon their children and so on” (Exodus 20:5 and 34:6-7) and (Deuteronomy 5:9) and even (1 Corinthians 15:22) debate, I think it is a very valid question although I am extremely reluctant to accept that someone’s mental health is a curse visited upon them by God in punishment for something that their father, grandfather, or great grandfather did.
I personally find it extremely difficult to reconcile the loving heavenly father that I personally know and experience in God with such a believe and indeed would have to quote such scriptures as Deuteronomy 24:16 “Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.” Ezekiel 18:20 “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.” and that self-same 1 Corinthians 15:22 scripture I mentioned above “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive.”.
I guess the way I see it – in respect of sin is that it has consequences and that the ‘punishment’ talked of is not so much a ‘curse’ handed down by an angry God in response to every little wrong action, but simply a consequence of not taking a right action. If I breathe I live – right action. If I stop breathing I die – wrong action. Should I choose to stop breathing and thus die, am I being punished by God for that or am I simply suffering the consequence of a wrong action?
God is God and sin has consequences is my understanding. So if my father or his father or his father’s father does something which has far reaching implications even into my life will God simply remove those implications? No I don’t believe he does or should. Are not those far-reaching implications part of the motivation not to do the sin in the first place?
But If I come to Christ and renounce my father’s (grandfather’s or great grandfather’s) actions and ask for forgiveness is God gracious enough to hear that prayer? Absolutely he is!
It is a difficult subject though isn’t it? And I am equally reluctant to suggest or accept that ‘all’ illness is a direct result or consequence of sin and in fact I would go as far as to claim that the scriptures prove that whilst some may be, ‘all’ is certainly not.
In respect of the whole paying for sins of a ‘previous lifetime’ belief this sis something I am very familiar with and a conversation that I have frequently with a very close friend of mine who subscribes to the whole reincarnation belief but I cannot find any evidence to support such belief and likewise must respond to my own personal experiences and understandings which are Christ based and thus do not accommodate such a belief.
But what kind of person would I be were I to expect you to respect my right to my beliefs if I were not also willing to accept your right to yours? So there is little to no chance of my ‘kicking you out’ as you mentioned a) I am simply not that way inclined, b) I am not so insecure in my beliefs as to feel the need to and c) I am not sure I would even know how to LOL.
So no fears on that score 🙂 And as I said, I appreciate your comments and find them helpful and challenging.
Kind Regards and God bless you.
Kevin.
Dearest Kevin,
I so appreciate your very thoughtful, magnanimous and charitable response to my comment. And so agree with you on the many things you said. Certainly the quote about “the sins of the forefathers being visited upon their children and so on” (Exodus 20:5 and 34:6-7) and (Deuteronomy 5:9) rings spot on true in my family. My mother renounced her mother and her daughter renounced her mother and my sister’s daughter renounced her mother. And my grandfather, my father and my brother were all alcoholics. And I know this is not only in my family but actually in most– maybe not with so much disfunction, but then again, in many far worse. I don’t think of it as sins being passed on but rather unresolved psychological issues that were not solved by any of the people involved in their lifetimes although my father’s father did go AA but never really became a good father. How it starts is the question for me. The father of my alcholic grandfather was a minister. How did the alcoholism start. And what it means in terms of implications is another question that puzzles me.
You certainly have a closeness to God as an all-loving Father. I grew up Protestant and then Catholic and the fear of God was instilled so I have a hard time feeling the all-lovingness of God, the Father, but felt it very strongly in His Son. Sadly I have lost that connection and have discussed in other posts the role of medication in that, but maybe it is also in getting older.
I do believe in reincarnation though I certainly can’t prove it nor can I argue it with someone. Born on Dec. 21, Doubting Thomas’s feast day, I follow suit and am afraid I have been plagued with doubts my whole life and thought God a punishing Father. My belief in reincarnation explains for me why we all have certain problems to tackle, some more than others, justifying the seeming inquities we find we each have to deal with in our lives.
Too, I have had many, many experiences of closeness to other cultures, other races with which I feel such kinship or people with whom I feel such closeness that I feel the roots lie in a previous lifetime. This is just a feeling and nothing I can prove and a lousy reason to believe but I know it to be in me. It could be some sort of sense memories from very early childhood since I was very close to my peasant-turned-lawyer, Sicilian grandfather and his wife. But it does not explain other attractions and close relationships to people very, very, very different from me in so many ways or spiritual attractions to certain places to which I have no ties in this life.
Too it makes sense to me that we each have to learn the lessons of our lifetimes and overcome problems in order to be saved, or to say another way is to reach enlightenment and then an end to the long progressions of lives.
I so miss my closeness to Jesus I felt as a young girl and the only way I can remotely access those feelings is through the writings of Paramahansa Yogananda which I am trying to pursue and even having trouble with that. But through his writings I do feel sweet Jesus there– I just have to stop being too busy to pursue that path. It is not easy and again, I blame medication, but that is no excuse.
Anyhow, Kevin, I do feel Christ in you and your ministry for I think your blogs are your ministry and they mean a great deal to me, as do you.
Thank you again,
Ellen
Hi Ellen,
I am just about to go out to Bible study for the evening but did want for you to know that I so very much appreciate your opinion and your sharing on this.
I also understand in part at least where you are coming from in respect of your beliefs and I am sincere in my respecting them.
Whilst I my not ever, when looking at myself, understand why I am able to be acceptable to Christ of course my acceptability is not about me it is about Him and without that I am sure I would already be dead. So I am so very grateful for it and for the closeness that it brings.
Kind Regards and God bless you.
Kevin
Thank you so much, Kevin, for taking the time to read my very long comment and to reply offering me respect despite our differences! Much appreciated.
God bless you,
Ellen
P.S. I bought your book no. 1 today and going now to rest after working all day and continue reading it. I hope it will help me spiritually because I need lots of help in so many ways. Am enjoying it immensely so far.
Hey Ellen,
Oh that is really cool. I am so glad that you are enjoying it and I hope and pray that it does bless you, although I am of course a little nervous as to what you and people may think of the book.
Kind Regards and God bless you.
Kevin.
i´m slowly working my way through a book called Love Your God with all Your Mind (the role of reason in the soul) and i think the authors would have been quite proud of your reasoning. i love your questions and your honesty about not knowing. i am not one who believes God wants to heal us of everything physical or mental, but i do believe He wants to heal our spirit/souls. i think He uses all these questions of ours to do just that. maybe our souls are truly healed to the level we are willing to be honest with our true feelings and doubts about all we have been told. dunno. i just love HIM. Jesus goes where He is wanted.
Hi A Little 🙂
Really good to hear from you and I am glad that you liked the post.
Amen to what you have said! Such an encouragement.
Kind Regards and God bless you.
Kevin.
I’ll answer the question when I get to it 🙂 I understand where you are coming from with yours!
Going to watch The Secret Life of a Manic Depressive later!!!
Good post!
PIM
Hey PIM,
Glad you liked the post and really glad you are answering the questions too.
Yes do check out the video, it is fairly interesting 🙂
Hope you are well?
Kind Regards and God bless you.
Kevin